Improving Access to Clinical Trials Act

David Traver · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:27 pm Post subject: Seven houses

Olan Barnes · Joined: 17 May 2004 Posts: 1648 Location: Michigan

Same old - same old - we are in the mud season without being in Florida?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12700.html

David Traver · Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 01:10 am Post subject:

Yep, I agree. The lapel pin, the "associations" with "characters," the middle name, the pledge of allegiance, the religion, the wife, the church, celebrity, they are all non-issues.

One shot at McCain and it's mud.

Unbelievable.

Olan Barnes · Joined: 17 May 2004 Posts: 1648 Location: Michigan

My analyst is that this was a shot directly by the Obama campaign and opens up an issue directly by the McCain campaign in an ad now airing on this issue by the McCain team.

"Voters care a lot more about candidates' personal ethics than about how many houses or residences or doghouses that John and Cindy McCain own," he said. He questioned efforts by McCain's Democratic rival, Barack Obama, to exploit the issue, given that Obama benefited from a 2005 land deal with the wife of convicted Chicago businessman — and former Obama fundraiser — Tony Rezko that expanded the Obama family's newly purchased $1.65 million homestead.

"The reality is that Barack Obama purchased his million-dollar mansion in a shady deal involving a convicted felon, and it raises questions about his ethics and judgment," said Rogers."

I am sure there will be a return salvo I bet. brought to you by the Obama campaign and again return fire.

Some of the other issues were by McCain friendly folks not with the campaign but this was a unprovoked attack by the Obama team. I see that a slip of the lip by either candidate will lead to an attack ad just like the the comment with the 100 year presence comment made by McCain that led to a truncated ad by Obama - every campaign will have a degree of mud IMHO and particularly in a tight race.

Well I am off tomorrow to volunteer for the Gift of Life at the State Fair -- will you believe that Sumer is coming to a close?
Enjoy each day - I will.

Insider (Ret) · Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 01:39 pm Post subject:

Unprovoked attack? Good grief, what you see sure does depend on where you sit. McCain provoked the whole thing by being foolish enough not to have anticipated the question and/or not having a functioning memory. As for the 'attack' aspect, pointing out McCain's wealth -- and distance from the every day existence that most of us experience -- hardly is an attack. It's obvious that he not only doesn't worry about paying his mortgage(s) (if he has any), he doesn't pay any of his bills or pay any attention to the "end of month" issues that most of us deal with. Maybe none of this matters....but the senior Bush sure learned the hard way how issues of this kind can hurt when he didn't have the foggiest notion what a gallon of milk cost in the 1992 election.

Guest · Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 06:32 pm Post subject:

Maybe Obama could talk McCain into leasing one of his houses to his 1/2 brother or perhaps Obama has some room in his million plus dollar house for him.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2590614/Barack-Obamas-lost-brother-found-in-Kenya.html

They are both politicians who will say or do anything to get elected. We as americans need to realize that a savior has not arrived nor are we looking at the devil incarnate either. They are both just extremely wealthy individuals who are hungry for power and will do whatever it takes to seize it. Thats how they got where they are...there is no other way in our current system.

YellowDog · Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 60

That may be true, but one of them is at least arguably competent while the other is just another damn Republican.

David Traver · Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 07:53 pm Post subject:

It also makes a difference that Senator McCain dumped his disabled wife to marry millions while Senator Obama earned his millions by writing best-selling autobiographies.

These are matters of compassion, judgment, commitment, and intelligence that should not be overlooked by anybody interested in family values and brilliance.

Insider (Ret) · Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 01:13 pm Post subject:

Pointing out that candidates for President are "hungry for power" is rather like pointing out that skunks don't make good house pets. Skunks stink; candidates for President have large egos.

deltajudge · Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 434

Well McCain was going to run an "honorable" campaign and Obama was going to be above the "old" politics, so here we are. 8)

JOA · Joined: 13 May 2004 Posts: 2021

One of the abiding themes for Alaisdair MacIntyre's After Virtue is that "[t]here seems to be no rational way of securing moral agreement in our culture" (page 6). Here's a link to a wiki article on who MacIntyre is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alasdair_MacIntyre

MacIntyre is not the easiest guy to understand—too many 50-word sentences. But insofar as I can follow his argument, MacIntyre believes the common approach for current moral reasoning is to erect a structure of reasons that is founded on initial positions or principles to which we are emotionally committed. These disparate emotional commitments are, MacIntyre says, incommensurable. This leads to interminable debate. He gives several examples over pages 6 and 7. Depending on your skill in coaxing text out of amazon.com or the Google book search, you can read these two pages online.

I'm inclined to think—perhaps I should say I'm inclined to hope—that MacIntyre falls short of being entirely correct. Still, this thread, and many other recent Connect threads as well, call MacIntyre to mind.

deltajudge · Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 434

JOA, we all set out with good intentions.But once you get into politics, forget it. McCain and his "honorable" campaign and Obama being above the old "politics." You and I know that is a pile of shit. It is going to be knock down and drag out after the conventions. 8)

Insider (Ret) · Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 02:35 pm Post subject:

OK, I'll bite. Sen. Obama's position regarding the "old politics" was--and is--that personal attacks on the other candidate are verboten. Attacks on the other person's positions are, of course, what politics is all about. So, dear Delta, show me where Sen. Obama and/or his campaign have attacked Sen. McCain as a person--i.e., attacked his character, his history, etc. Hasn't happened.

deltajudge · Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 434

Larry, after the conventions, but the house deal is a good start. :roll:

YellowDog · Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 60

The seven (or is it eight?) houses thing is, of course, childish, the sort of silly playground politics that has dominated the national scene since anybody first heard of Lee Atwater. I'm afraid I have to echo Paul Krugman's sentiment in seeing the Obama people get down and dirty--GOOD, it's about damned time. Right wing dirtball tactics keep getting repeated because they work. Such tactics will stop working when voters stop paying attention to the attacks, and not before. Any politician today can, if he wishes, eschew such behaviors. He will deserve his resulting defeat, just punishment for being a fool. In 2008, Barack Obama doesn't need to show that he is somehow a different manner of leader than "the usual" politicians. It is enough to make sure that the country sees him as a standard basic garden variety Democrat, and John McCain as a standard basic garden variety Republican. Obama will then win handily.

deltajudge · Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 434

Hey Yellow Dog you have shown yourself to be a true democrat. Lot's of folks may not know what a yellow dog democrat is. That is a democrat that would vote for a democrat, even if he/she was a yellow dog. So there there you are. 8)

YellowDog · Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 60

The term is well over a century old. I wear it cheerfully and will keep on doing so until such time as the Republican party wakes from its nearly thirty year coma and recognizes the fundamental lunacy of what currently passes for conservative economic and social philosophy.

deltajudge · Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 434

Tell you what I'm gonna do, Yellow Dog, I'm gone back off and let you take over. You too smart for me. Obama is the man. He spent a while in the state legislature, was a community worker, and hasn't finished his first year as a US senator. So, you put your future and security in his hands He ain't been around. 8)

YellowDog · Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 60

Barring unforeseen death of one or both, in January of next year, either Barack Obama or John McCain will be sworn in as President of the United States. If you would like to see somebody else get the job, somebody perhaps smarter or more qualified or both smarter and more qualified, too bad, it ain't happening. Many people, presumably people who intend to vote for John McCain and would like the rest of us to do so, seem eager to pin on Mr. Obama the label Unknown Quantity. It is of course their right to do so. Senator Obama is, particularly among the class of people who typically vie for the Presidency, rather young. I am baffled, however, by the logic that won't see the superiority of Unknown Quantity over Proven Trainwreck. "Experience", as used by Senator McCain's supporters, has no meaning beyond "more of the same."

deltajudge · Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 434

I'm not a McCain admirer, and if you think he will be more of the same, look at his being proud of being a "maverick." You don't know what you gone git. He is at least strong on national security, and not for raising taxes. I really don't know what Hussein is for. 8)

YellowDog · Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 60

The implication of calling John McCain a maverick is that he is something of a rebel, an independent thinker, a man who is not beholden to the Republican party line. John McCain does indeed like being called a maverick. One of his newer ads features a lady who says she previously supported Hillary Clinton and now favors McCain because, among other things, he is a maverick. I don't recall that she cited any supporting evidence for the applicability of that label. I am not at all clear on how toeing the right wing line on reproductive rights, tax policy, Iraq, Iran, etc. etc. etc. establishes Mr. McCain's maverick status. But maybe that's just me. Maybe we now have a whole new brand of mavericks out there, men who demonstrate the power of their independence by refusing to ever exercise it. Perhaps when he accepts his party's nomination Mr. McCain can proudly assure us "I have the boldness of spirit and independence of mind to promise, you won't be able to tell that George Bush ever actually left office."

Finding out what Mr. Obama stands for is not difficult. "The Audacity of Hope" is an excellent book, available from pretty much any retail bookseller; these nice people will mail you a copy for a quite reasonable charge http://www.amazon.com/Audacity-Hope-Thoughts-Reclaiming-American/dp/0307455874/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219858862&sr=8-1

Other information regarding Mr. Obama's stance concerning a number of major issues can be found at http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

deltajudge · Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 434

Dream on Yellow Dog. He ain't picking up any steam, with all the main stream media slavering all over him., He may pull this thing off, mainly because of McCain and Bush, but it is not going to be easy. Let's see watch slick Willie has to say tonight. 8)