Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 06:24 pm Post subject: Durational error at the 5/09 NOSSCR conference
As time permits during the interstices of my day, I have been listening to the 5/09 NOSSCR conference presentations. This is easier on my self-control than being present. If I were at the presentations, I would have to repress the urge to jump up and shout, "no, no, no." Listening on my own I can get up, run in a circle, let off a scream, then sit down and draw three deep breaths before starting up the recording again.
Before I go further, I will say that it might be that the Connect moderator will find that there are reasons why the quoted material below can't be shared.
But moderator permitting, I will give these quotations. Later I will say later why I think that the presentation titled "Ways Around Walton" was unfortunate for its title, and illustrated with a chart that was in part misleading. For now I want to say how very much I disagree with comments about how one measures the starting point for the 12-month duration requirement in SSI claims.
At about minute 24:00, one of the presented spoke of the threshold issues this way:
Quote:
Is there a now-work, non-SGA 12-month period since the application, or if it’s a social security disability application, and we know that we can go back prior to the actual date of application, was t here or has there been a full 12-month period of non-SGA for any month covered retrospectively by an SSD application.
This is a clear enough statement that for SSI applications, none of the months prior to the month of application count toward duration. At least one person in the audience was puzzled enough about this to raise a question at the end of the presentation. There followed in part this answer:
Quote:
For a title 16 application you can't start it before the application.
At about this same time, a voice that I think belonged to the moderator added this:
Quote:
Your 12 months begin with the date of application.
In past years I've posted about this mistaken idea that the 12 months for an SSI claim all have to begin with the month of application. I will not repeat today all the prior stuff about the Act and the regulations. I will instead quote from SSR 83-20 about when it is that SSA adjudicators need to worry about the exact date of onset for an SSI claim (emphasis added):
Quote:
Under title XVI, there is no retroactivity of payment. Supplemental security income (SSI) payments are prorated for the first month for which eligibility is established after application and after a period of ineligibility. Therefore, except for certain cases of aliens where an exact onset date of disability must be determined for eligibility purposes, the only instances when the specific date of onset must be separately determined for a title XVI case is when the onset is subsequent to the date of filing or when it is necessary to determine whether the duration requirement is met.
The printed materials for the Walton presentation suggest that the presenters are fond of POMS references. So I will include some similar language from POMS DI 24010.00:
Quote:
1. Special Consideration for Title XVI
Date of Onset
Unlike title II beneficiaries, the date of application is usually established as the date of onset of disability for a title XVI recipient. Accordingly, if an onset date has been established under title II for a title II/XVI claim, use the onset date established for the title II claim as the actual date of onset to determine if the duration requirement has been fulfilled for both claims. If an onset date later than the month of filing has been established for a title XVI-only claim, use that date of onset as the actual date of onset to determine if the duration requirement has been fulfilled. Otherwise, if the actual onset date is needed to determine if the duration requirement has been met, the FO will develop and prepare a work issue determination. The FO will send the folder to the DDS that made the original disability determination and annotate the route slip “The claimant began work at a SGA level after the month of filing. Determine the actual date of onset, considering whether the duration requirement was met, in view of the claimant's work activity”.
https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0424010001 _________________ I've posted this in my private capacity. What I post might be wrong. Probably, it IS wrong. Any errors are my own. Please don't infer any SSA approval for what I post.
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